Barr seeks relief on ACT's high petrol prices

I don’t want to rain on your parade here, but I can remember when the “pro-business” Carnell Liberal government took office in 1995 petrol prices increased almost 20 cents per litre overnight. I also remember how she put a levy on petrol to fund the Canberra Hospital redevelopment, a levy that stayed after the project was finished and which we are still paying today.

If that was so, then Carnell’s Liberals were voted out. I wonder if Barr’s ACT Labor/Greens will be voted out ???

As a ACT ratepayer, Im just so sick and tired of ACT Government(s) treating their constituents and Ratepayers with such contempt – and as financial milking cows. If by some fluke, ACT Lib’s do form Government here but then do not deliver the goods, then I also hope they are voted out in 2020.

200 years ago the ACT was covered in sheep heards. 200 years later.. nothing has changed

greenbamboo said :

There is one more reason we are still stuck with petrol and diesel as our primary modes of propulsion, CO2 emissions. It might sound green to be driving an electric car around, but due to the lack of widely abundant green energy [And the additional fact that green means that someone agreed to plant trees in order to offset the emissions from their dirty power, rather than actually produce green power ] most owners will find they are filling up on coal powered electricity. The amount of coal required to provide the charge in a battery to drive an electric vehicle, is equivalent to or even more than the released CO2 from burning fossil fuels in a petrol equivalent.
So man has come up with a way to use green energy, that is great! Now we just need to find a way to produce more of it. Then we can begin to eliminate fossil fuels and their byproducts.
Interesting that if a petrol car uses about 6litres per 100km, it’d cost about $7.20 as opposed to $4.50 for electric. But if the tariffs were removed from petrol, it would be cheaper to use the liquid form. I wonder how long after electric becomes the norm, that we will see more taxes and levies applied to electricity?

Ouch! The greenies won’t like that.
Let’s face it, electric cars are preferred by the trendoids because they are cool and that’s about it.

There is one more reason we are still stuck with petrol and diesel as our primary modes of propulsion, CO2 emissions. It might sound green to be driving an electric car around, but due to the lack of widely abundant green energy [And the additional fact that green means that someone agreed to plant trees in order to offset the emissions from their dirty power, rather than actually produce green power ] most owners will find they are filling up on coal powered electricity. The amount of coal required to provide the charge in a battery to drive an electric vehicle, is equivalent to or even more than the released CO2 from burning fossil fuels in a petrol equivalent.
So man has come up with a way to use green energy, that is great! Now we just need to find a way to produce more of it. Then we can begin to eliminate fossil fuels and their byproducts.
Interesting that if a petrol car uses about 6litres per 100km, it’d cost about $7.20 as opposed to $4.50 for electric. But if the tariffs were removed from petrol, it would be cheaper to use the liquid form. I wonder how long after electric becomes the norm, that we will see more taxes and levies applied to electricity?

I don’t want to rain on your parade here, but I can remember when the “pro-business” Carnell Liberal government took office in 1995 petrol prices increased almost 20 cents per litre overnight. I also remember how she put a levy on petrol to fund the Canberra Hospital redevelopment, a levy that stayed after the project was finished and which we are still paying today.

If that was so, then Carnell’s Liberals were voted out. I wonder if Barr’s ACT Labor/Greens will be voted out ???

As a ACT ratepayer, Im just so sick and tired of ACT Government(s) treating their constituents and Ratepayers with such contempt – and as financial milking cows. If by some fluke, ACT Lib’s do form Government here but then do not deliver the goods, then I also hope they are voted out in 2020.

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

Mordd said :

Maya123 said :

Mordd said :

Can’t compare standard el cheapo car against a top of the line Tesla. The new Model 3 will be priced at USD35,000 (local price due next year). Tesla also provide an 8-year battery warranty.

You also cannot compare a car that cannot even make it to Sydney without stopping for a few hours to charge the battery, to any liquid propelled transport. For commuting they have their place but for any travel outside Australian towns or cities they are no substitute.
There are significant hurdles to overcome before electric cars make petrol a thing of the past, range being the major one and charging another complicated problem. Providing charging stations for everyone to use is a massive task in terms of scale, requiring outlets, a means to measure the kWh and bill people for usage and all the extra load being put on our electricity grid infrastructure. I wonder how much of an electric car’s driveable range is eaten up by defrosting the windows on a sub zero morning, by cranking the heater on the way to your destination, by running the air conditioning in summer to avoid heatstroke? Petrol cars will be around for some time to come.

It’s easy to spot the people who don’t know anything about the new generation of electric vehicles.

The range of the Teslas is over 400km. Do you know that Sydney is actually quite a lot less than 400km away? And for the paranoid among you, there’s a Tesla supercharging station in Goulburn, and 2 in Sydney.

My 2.0 litre petrol turbo (cost $11K second hand) can go to Albury and back (660km) on a full tank and still have 120km range left after returning from Albury.

Fancy that! Technology that’s so far past the early-adopter period and now approaching its obsolescence is cheaper than new technology…

It’s great that you like your car and that it gets good distance. But that doesn’t prove that electric vehicles are useless for distance driving. There’s already enough charging stations between Sydney and Melbourne to make the trip comfortably in a Tesla, in the same amount of time as the average trip in a combustion engined vehicle. Electrics won’t be suited to all needs initially, but for the vast majority of motorists they are already be more than adequate.

“cheaper than new technology” applies to most of us.
You may be able to afford the indulgence of an electric car but most of us (that’s the vast majority of motorists to you) can’t.
As a matter of interest, what type of electric car do you drive?

I can’t afford one yet. But I recognise their potential and I think they are absolutely the next step forward. Especially as governments are pressured to move towards renewable energy. Countries in Europe are moving towards phasing out new consumer combustion engine vehicles in the next 2 decades. And considering the increasingly strict European emissions standards, we are going to see more push to move towards electric vehicles. Tesla, a fairly new company with no prior experience in making cars, has proven that they can work, and that they can compete in nearly every way with existing luxury cars. That’s an impressive feat. And it won’t stop there.

I love cars and motorcycles. I own one of each. The motorbike is 1000cc. It’s loud and fast and I love it. But I’m not about to pretend that electric vehicles are a passing fad. I don’t understand the reluctance of many people to hold so desperately onto inefficient, wasteful, and environmentally detrimental technology in the fact of a better alternative (even if it’s still in its infancy).

dungfungus said :

Begs the question, why now?

Hasn’t Mr Barr noticed this discrepancy before, but now wants to be seen doing something 4 months from October!

Of course. But the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t know how gullible and rusted on Labor/Greens ACT voters and Ratepayers are. If we vote ACT Labor/Greens back, this is the sort of insulting politics that we entrench – and would deserve.

I don’t want to rain on your parade here, but I can remember when the “pro-business” Carnell Liberal government took office in 1995 petrol prices increased almost 20 cents per litre overnight. I also remember how she put a levy on petrol to fund the Canberra Hospital redevelopment, a levy that stayed after the project was finished and which we are still paying today.

rommeldog56 said :

Mordd said :

Maya123 said :

Mordd said :

Can’t compare standard el cheapo car against a top of the line Tesla. The new Model 3 will be priced at USD35,000 (local price due next year). Tesla also provide an 8-year battery warranty.

You also cannot compare a car that cannot even make it to Sydney without stopping for a few hours to charge the battery, to any liquid propelled transport. For commuting they have their place but for any travel outside Australian towns or cities they are no substitute.
There are significant hurdles to overcome before electric cars make petrol a thing of the past, range being the major one and charging another complicated problem. Providing charging stations for everyone to use is a massive task in terms of scale, requiring outlets, a means to measure the kWh and bill people for usage and all the extra load being put on our electricity grid infrastructure. I wonder how much of an electric car’s driveable range is eaten up by defrosting the windows on a sub zero morning, by cranking the heater on the way to your destination, by running the air conditioning in summer to avoid heatstroke? Petrol cars will be around for some time to come.

It’s easy to spot the people who don’t know anything about the new generation of electric vehicles.

The range of the Teslas is over 400km. Do you know that Sydney is actually quite a lot less than 400km away? And for the paranoid among you, there’s a Tesla supercharging station in Goulburn, and 2 in Sydney.

My 2.0 litre petrol turbo (cost $11K second hand) can go to Albury and back (660km) on a full tank and still have 120km range left after returning from Albury.

Fancy that! Technology that’s so far past the early-adopter period and now approaching its obsolescence is cheaper than new technology…

It’s great that you like your car and that it gets good distance. But that doesn’t prove that electric vehicles are useless for distance driving. There’s already enough charging stations between Sydney and Melbourne to make the trip comfortably in a Tesla, in the same amount of time as the average trip in a combustion engined vehicle. Electrics won’t be suited to all needs initially, but for the vast majority of motorists they are already be more than adequate.

“cheaper than new technology” applies to most of us.
You may be able to afford the indulgence of an electric car but most of us (that’s the vast majority of motorists to you) can’t.
As a matter of interest, what type of electric car do you drive?

Maya123 said :

It’s easy to spot the people who don’t know anything about the new generation of electric vehicles.

The range of the Teslas is over 400km. Do you know that Sydney is actually quite a lot less than 400km away? And for the paranoid among you, there’s a Tesla supercharging station in Goulburn, and 2 in Sydney.

To get a range of 400km in an electric car, you first need to invest at least $130,000 for the car and appropriately sized battery. Not exactly economical on the budget, even if you get recharged for free. That $100,000 would buy a whole lot of range for an economical 4 banger.
What do you do if you have to wait for other people to finish charging before you get your turn to have a 1 hour break? What if you are in a hurry and can’t wait? What about having to reduce your highway speed to 95km/h because your car is saying you won’t make it to the next recharge at the speed limit? Sounds like a lot of inconvenience to me, might as well take a train.

Mordd said :

Maya123 said :

Mordd said :

Can’t compare standard el cheapo car against a top of the line Tesla. The new Model 3 will be priced at USD35,000 (local price due next year). Tesla also provide an 8-year battery warranty.

You also cannot compare a car that cannot even make it to Sydney without stopping for a few hours to charge the battery, to any liquid propelled transport. For commuting they have their place but for any travel outside Australian towns or cities they are no substitute.
There are significant hurdles to overcome before electric cars make petrol a thing of the past, range being the major one and charging another complicated problem. Providing charging stations for everyone to use is a massive task in terms of scale, requiring outlets, a means to measure the kWh and bill people for usage and all the extra load being put on our electricity grid infrastructure. I wonder how much of an electric car’s driveable range is eaten up by defrosting the windows on a sub zero morning, by cranking the heater on the way to your destination, by running the air conditioning in summer to avoid heatstroke? Petrol cars will be around for some time to come.

It’s easy to spot the people who don’t know anything about the new generation of electric vehicles.

The range of the Teslas is over 400km. Do you know that Sydney is actually quite a lot less than 400km away? And for the paranoid among you, there’s a Tesla supercharging station in Goulburn, and 2 in Sydney.

My 2.0 litre petrol turbo (cost $11K second hand) can go to Albury and back (660km) on a full tank and still have 120km range left after returning from Albury.

Fancy that! Technology that’s so far past the early-adopter period and now approaching its obsolescence is cheaper than new technology…

It’s great that you like your car and that it gets good distance. But that doesn’t prove that electric vehicles are useless for distance driving. There’s already enough charging stations between Sydney and Melbourne to make the trip comfortably in a Tesla, in the same amount of time as the average trip in a combustion engined vehicle. Electrics won’t be suited to all needs initially, but for the vast majority of motorists they are already be more than adequate.

Maya123 said :

Mordd said :

Can’t compare standard el cheapo car against a top of the line Tesla. The new Model 3 will be priced at USD35,000 (local price due next year). Tesla also provide an 8-year battery warranty.

You also cannot compare a car that cannot even make it to Sydney without stopping for a few hours to charge the battery, to any liquid propelled transport. For commuting they have their place but for any travel outside Australian towns or cities they are no substitute.
There are significant hurdles to overcome before electric cars make petrol a thing of the past, range being the major one and charging another complicated problem. Providing charging stations for everyone to use is a massive task in terms of scale, requiring outlets, a means to measure the kWh and bill people for usage and all the extra load being put on our electricity grid infrastructure. I wonder how much of an electric car’s driveable range is eaten up by defrosting the windows on a sub zero morning, by cranking the heater on the way to your destination, by running the air conditioning in summer to avoid heatstroke? Petrol cars will be around for some time to come.

It’s easy to spot the people who don’t know anything about the new generation of electric vehicles.

The range of the Teslas is over 400km. Do you know that Sydney is actually quite a lot less than 400km away? And for the paranoid among you, there’s a Tesla supercharging station in Goulburn, and 2 in Sydney.

My 2.0 litre petrol turbo (cost $11K second hand) can go to Albury and back (660km) on a full tank and still have 120km range left after returning from Albury.

Maya123 said :

The range of the Teslas is over 400km. Do you know that Sydney is actually quite a lot less than 400km away? And for the paranoid among you, there’s a Tesla supercharging station in Goulburn, and 2 in Sydney.

Wow someone knows how to read the sticker.

Mordd said :

Can’t compare standard el cheapo car against a top of the line Tesla. The new Model 3 will be priced at USD35,000 (local price due next year). Tesla also provide an 8-year battery warranty.

You also cannot compare a car that cannot even make it to Sydney without stopping for a few hours to charge the battery, to any liquid propelled transport. For commuting they have their place but for any travel outside Australian towns or cities they are no substitute.
There are significant hurdles to overcome before electric cars make petrol a thing of the past, range being the major one and charging another complicated problem. Providing charging stations for everyone to use is a massive task in terms of scale, requiring outlets, a means to measure the kWh and bill people for usage and all the extra load being put on our electricity grid infrastructure. I wonder how much of an electric car’s driveable range is eaten up by defrosting the windows on a sub zero morning, by cranking the heater on the way to your destination, by running the air conditioning in summer to avoid heatstroke? Petrol cars will be around for some time to come.

It’s easy to spot the people who don’t know anything about the new generation of electric vehicles.

The range of the Teslas is over 400km. Do you know that Sydney is actually quite a lot less than 400km away? And for the paranoid among you, there’s a Tesla supercharging station in Goulburn, and 2 in Sydney.

JC said :

Maya123 said :

bennygrocott said :

TuggLife said :

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

It would have to be something like 50c/kWh to reach cost parity with petrol. And that’s before you factor in oil, oil filter, air filter, timing belt, alternator, distributor, spark plugs, fuel injectors, exhaust system and a bunch of other combustion related parts that break down over time and require expensive mechanical labour to replace or repair.

Cost of new Camry petrol car = $25,000. Cost of Tesla electric car $150,000 plus new battery every 5 years.

Errr, you picked the most expensive electric car on the market. You can get them now for around $40k and the price will drop in coming years.

The “cheapest” electric car available in Australia is probably the tiny Nissan Leaf which like its namesake, is prone to be blown around by slipstreams of heavier vehicles.
It was initially sold for $60,000 and now sells for just under $40,000. This is no comparison to a petrol powered Toyota Camry.
ActewAGL use Chevrolet Volts which are hybrid powered. They cost $60,000 and have to rely a lot on their auxilary ICE power.

Mordd said :

Can’t compare standard el cheapo car against a top of the line Tesla. The new Model 3 will be priced at USD35,000 (local price due next year). Tesla also provide an 8-year battery warranty.

You also cannot compare a car that cannot even make it to Sydney without stopping for a few hours to charge the battery, to any liquid propelled transport. For commuting they have their place but for any travel outside Australian towns or cities they are no substitute.
There are significant hurdles to overcome before electric cars make petrol a thing of the past, range being the major one and charging another complicated problem. Providing charging stations for everyone to use is a massive task in terms of scale, requiring outlets, a means to measure the kWh and bill people for usage and all the extra load being put on our electricity grid infrastructure. I wonder how much of an electric car’s driveable range is eaten up by defrosting the windows on a sub zero morning, by cranking the heater on the way to your destination, by running the air conditioning in summer to avoid heatstroke? Petrol cars will be around for some time to come.

Mordd said :

Maya123 said :

bennygrocott said :

TuggLife said :

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

It would have to be something like 50c/kWh to reach cost parity with petrol. And that’s before you factor in oil, oil filter, air filter, timing belt, alternator, distributor, spark plugs, fuel injectors, exhaust system and a bunch of other combustion related parts that break down over time and require expensive mechanical labour to replace or repair.

Cost of new Camry petrol car = $25,000. Cost of Tesla electric car $150,000 plus new battery every 5 years.

Can’t compare standard el cheapo car against a top of the line Tesla. The new Model 3 will be priced at USD35,000 (local price due next year). Tesla also provide an 8-year battery warranty.

“next year” is a long way off. Tesla haven’t even a factory ready to build the orders they have in the USA so I doubt if any will be exported to Australia and if they are the price will be at least twice the $35K you have quoted as the Aussie Dollar will be worth about US$0.50c by then.
The basic model 3 has a range of less than 400km and Tesla are relying on taxpayer subsidies of US$7,500 per car to make the manufacture viable.

Maya123 said :

bennygrocott said :

TuggLife said :

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

It would have to be something like 50c/kWh to reach cost parity with petrol. And that’s before you factor in oil, oil filter, air filter, timing belt, alternator, distributor, spark plugs, fuel injectors, exhaust system and a bunch of other combustion related parts that break down over time and require expensive mechanical labour to replace or repair.

Cost of new Camry petrol car = $25,000. Cost of Tesla electric car $150,000 plus new battery every 5 years.

Errr, you picked the most expensive electric car on the market. You can get them now for around $40k and the price will drop in coming years.

Laurel said :

Mordd said :

“It is important our local council is held to account to ensure that Canberrans aren’t paying too much for things like the Cotter Dam, public art, pop-up container villages, urban densification, union MOUs, the Tram and Skywhale,” Barr said.

You forgot the green bins, but otherwise A+++

…..and any “new” initiative that has the word “smart” in it.

Maya123 said :

bennygrocott said :

TuggLife said :

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

It would have to be something like 50c/kWh to reach cost parity with petrol. And that’s before you factor in oil, oil filter, air filter, timing belt, alternator, distributor, spark plugs, fuel injectors, exhaust system and a bunch of other combustion related parts that break down over time and require expensive mechanical labour to replace or repair.

Cost of new Camry petrol car = $25,000. Cost of Tesla electric car $150,000 plus new battery every 5 years.

Can’t compare standard el cheapo car against a top of the line Tesla. The new Model 3 will be priced at USD35,000 (local price due next year). Tesla also provide an 8-year battery warranty.

Mordd said :

“It is important our local council is held to account to ensure that Canberrans aren’t paying too much for things like the Cotter Dam, public art, pop-up container villages, urban densification, union MOUs, the Tram and Skywhale,” Barr said.

You forgot the green bins, but otherwise A+++

bennygrocott said :

TuggLife said :

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

It would have to be something like 50c/kWh to reach cost parity with petrol. And that’s before you factor in oil, oil filter, air filter, timing belt, alternator, distributor, spark plugs, fuel injectors, exhaust system and a bunch of other combustion related parts that break down over time and require expensive mechanical labour to replace or repair.

They only require “expensive mechanical labour” in a town of second-generation career paper-pushers who have no practical skills and can’t perform basic tasks on their own.

bennygrocott said :

TuggLife said :

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

It would have to be something like 50c/kWh to reach cost parity with petrol. And that’s before you factor in oil, oil filter, air filter, timing belt, alternator, distributor, spark plugs, fuel injectors, exhaust system and a bunch of other combustion related parts that break down over time and require expensive mechanical labour to replace or repair.

Cost of new Camry petrol car = $25,000. Cost of Tesla electric car $150,000 plus new battery every 5 years.

TuggLife said :

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

South Australia gets most of its electricity from renewables so this is what happens:
https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/sa-households-face-second-power-225608593.html

TuggLife said :

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

It would have to be something like 50c/kWh to reach cost parity with petrol. And that’s before you factor in oil, oil filter, air filter, timing belt, alternator, distributor, spark plugs, fuel injectors, exhaust system and a bunch of other combustion related parts that break down over time and require expensive mechanical labour to replace or repair.

Mordd said :

There were a few errors in this regurgitated press release, so I have taken the liberty of making some corrections. This is what it should have read:

“ACT chief minister Andrew Barr on Wednesday met with Australian Consumer and Competition Commission chair Rod Sims to discuss high residential rates faced by Canberra homeowners.

The ACT is continually recording higher rate rises than other large cities across the country, Barr said.

Between 2013 and 2016, Canberra homeowners saw record rate rises of 10%pa and significant differentials now compared with the national average and Sydney, in particular.

These record rates were despite a continued decrease in hospital, school and garbage collection services.

The figures reveal a large discrepancy between the provision and efficiency of government services and what homeowners are paying in rates.”

“It is important our local council is held to account to ensure that Canberrans aren’t paying too much for things like the Cotter Dam, public art, pop-up container villages, urban densification, union MOUs, the Tram and Skywhale,” Barr said.

I am nominating you as chief sub-editor for the RiotACT.

Mordd – IndyMedia said :

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

To be powered by what will potentially be the most expensive electricity in Australia?
No thanks!

There were a few errors in this regurgitated press release, so I have taken the liberty of making some corrections. This is what it should have read:

“ACT chief minister Andrew Barr on Wednesday met with Australian Consumer and Competition Commission chair Rod Sims to discuss high residential rates faced by Canberra homeowners.

The ACT is continually recording higher rate rises than other large cities across the country, Barr said.

Between 2013 and 2016, Canberra homeowners saw record rate rises of 10%pa and significant differentials now compared with the national average and Sydney, in particular.

These record rates were despite a continued decrease in hospital, school and garbage collection services.

The figures reveal a large discrepancy between the provision and efficiency of government services and what homeowners are paying in rates.”

“It is important our local council is held to account to ensure that Canberrans aren’t paying too much for things like the Cotter Dam, public art, pop-up container villages, urban densification, union MOUs, the Tram and Skywhale,” Barr said.

HiddenDragon said :

What other commodity is taxed at nearly 40c in the dollar and then 10% GST to boot?

FYI – tobacco (and pretty soon alcohol as well).

Begs the question, why now?

Hasn’t Mr Barr noticed this discrepancy before, but now wants to be seen doing something 4 months from October!

Of course. But the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t know how gullible and rusted on Labor/Greens ACT voters and Ratepayers are. If we vote ACT Labor/Greens back, this is the sort of insulting politics that we entrench – and would deserve.

Begs the question, why now?

Hasn’t Mr Barr noticed this discrepancy before, but now wants to be seen doing something 4 months from October!

Desperation in the air. He can sniff the change coming.

Begs the question, why now?

Hasn’t Mr Barr noticed this discrepancy before, but now wants to be seen doing something 4 months from October!

Begs the question why not? This has been the case for a long time. What’s changed?

Bring on the electric car.

Good luck getting the ACCC to do anything about it. If the government really wants to help with the cost of fuel, why don’t they drop some of their excise? What other commodity is taxed at nearly 40c in the dollar and then 10% GST to boot?