Flame of the Week - The Boots of Warwick Lynch

So JB, how do you suggest I do that? I’ve been trying to engage the organizers privately via email for weeks?

I’d really like to somehow reconcile this, but I’m getting the distinct impression by JB’s & others comments that the best way to do this would be to “put up my own webpage” or “create my own “festival”. I don’t see this as a solution & you could say that trying to discuss these ideas is my attempt at bridge building.

I can see that this is all being perceived as an attack on You Are Here by the way these comments have been received. But how else can I try to convince you that these ideas have validity What I’m really perplexed by is why I’m having to give proof of these opinions + my comments over & over again?

I’m actually really excited by what the You Are Here festival is already, I’m also really blown away by the level of enthusiasm I saw displayed by the audience & organizers last night. seeing David’s level of involvement bouncing around on the door of “the last prom” was quite inspiring.

So why am I being made to build a bridge to begin with?

I’m not against You Are Here, I’m against the way JB has baited me via email & then published the results, rather than just putting up my initial opinion, perhaps that why I now need to build a bridge hey?

Its a pity we will never know what that discussion would have looked like before this got elevated to ‘Flame of the Week’.

I’ve made mention of the Greens press release pushing the Re-new Canberra initiative in that initial comment, one of the things pushing me to discuss this other point of view is because In a few weeks the legislative assembly will be voting on the Re-new Canberra initiative funding, setting a precedent for wider community involvement with You Are Here could really help this cause, after all this is exactly what You Are Here is trying to achieve right? A lasting engagement between local government & local experimental or fringe arts practitioners year round?

monopod said:

Just for the record, I emailed David several times offering to help & be a part of this event, I never received a response
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That would be because he’s just not into you.

Honestly, the last few exchanges in this thread remind me of paper wars between the Maoists and the Trots in student newspapers in the 1970s. Impenetrable and inexhaustible prose, full of obscure references, and fuelled by the petulance and bitterness of people who are arguing about something that no-one else gives a rat’s about.

It’s enough to make one yearn for Les Patterson as Minister for the Yarts.

“Where to start! Firstly I completely disagree with your view of the Canberra scene having a ‘fringe’ clique”

Thats cool, I’m not asking you to agree with me, I’m just asking for you to at least allow my points of view into the discussion. Maybe you’ll find that its not just me with this point of view if the discussion continues.

I’m also trying to offer some other reasons as to why people use the term ‘hipster’ or ‘fringe’ clique & then apply it particular groups in Canberra.

Last night at the You Are Here festival I was hanging out with some friends, friends involved in performances at the festival that I thought were a part of the ‘fringe’ group & they were calling people ‘hipsters’ & discussing clique mentality as well……

I was suggesting that its a pretty complex discussion, its not as simple as 2x groups digging at each other.I didn’t mean to touch a nerve I was only trying to give you another perspective.

“You are putting words in my mouth when you accuse me of identifying as fringe as a way to call ‘the other group’ mainstream. “

I actually didn’t accuse you of that, you might want to re-read my earlier post , I was only trying to give you an explanation of why myself & the people I know use terms like ‘Hipster Clique” .

And I can only write from personal experience here but I also identify as “fringe” & “experimental” maybe even “Lunatic Fringe” & I’ve approached David Finnigan & yourself quiet a few times to get involved in different things over the years, I’ve never taken it personally when i wasn’t involved & have always greeted you both with a friendly smile in the street.

The reason I’m mentioning it now is because you are running a festival promoting Canberra are you not? I create ‘experimental’ arts in Canberra, I’m a Canberra experimental artist, I emailed David to be involved, with no reply……really do I have to endure a damn pissing match of achievements before David will decide I am worthy of a response?

“What other group? Who is the other group?”
“I am using fringe, particularly as a theatre artist to describe work that is original and would not be appropriate at somewhere like Canberra REP”

So let me get this straight, you identify your work as “fringe” as a way to differentiate your work from places like the Canberra Rep Theatre because you perceive this not to be appropriate for your original work?

Isn’t that in itself saying that Canberra Rep is a group? And doesn’t identifying as ‘fringe” create another group?

Why can’t left of field work be ‘framed’ by places like Canberra Rep?

“Do you know which graduates are and are not involved? ”
“What parts of the You Are Here program are you going to see?”

Yes, I’m going to the festival, I’ve already bumped into you there, I’m probably not going to share what I’ll be am going along to on RiotACt , but I’ll be there.

“You are speaking in quite vague terms, not only about the events you have curated, but also the other groups you have worked with who you feel should be creating work for this festival, what they would bring to this festival”

I haven’t spoken in detail because I’m hoping that a lot of these groups & artists see this as an opportunity where they can speak up about their own work & what they would bring to the Festival.

Following is an abbreviated list of the things i’ve been involved in: I’ve created and ran several events in the old ATSIC building between 2003-2004 titled “Demolition”, I was heavily involved running the tech side of the last “QuantaCrib” at TINA in 2004, Again for the “Colabradoor” event at TINA in 2005, New Media Experimental arts event at the Australian Choreographic Centre called “Gadget” in late 2006, I’ve performed as an experimental sound artist nationally & in 2005 was asked to do this with The Melbourne symphony Orchestra as part of Nick Ng’s “Secret of the Golden Flower” .

I’ve collaborated on events with QL2, Australian Choreographic centre (Now QL2), NGA , School Of Art, School of music, National Library of Australia, Fringe Festival Adelaide, Civic Youth Centre, Woden Youth Centre, Tuggernong Youth Centre.

Then in 2008 & the last public production I was involved with “Oceans All boiled Into Sky” written by David Finnigan, I wrote & produced my own & Eric Iknouchis original compositions & performed live FX & Music & mixing with Erica during the performances.

Then I de-activated from the local scene & have been developing work in private for the last 3xyears. With some “one off performances” at the NGA during the opening of the new entrance space. The last 3xyears of writing is nearing the light of day, the first chapter will be the emergence of an ensemble called “Orbis Tertius” playing middle eastern inspired ,original Instrumental compositions. I’ve also been writing music for local lebanese poet ‘Maher Kheir’ that he plans to release sometime in the next year.

I’m really not sure how any of this strengthens my argument or has any relevance to the discussion but you asked, so there you go!

“What are the other festivals they have tried to get off the ground that have not been funded?”

CNMA used to run an event called DUST for its graduates & smaller ‘satellite’ events during the year, since being consumed by the Photo-media department these events have been unfunded & as a result don’t exist anymore. CNMA tried several times to apply for more funding to expand this model ultimately with no success.

Paul Mosig & Racheal peachy from the collective ‘Contextual Villans’ who were heavily involved in the local ‘fringe’ scene at this time then created the “New Media Festival -Feasibility Study” that is attached earlier in the email correspondence on this page. If you haven’t read this already please do….

The School of music has an annual “Sound Proof” experimental composition event ran 3-4 times a year to promote the composition departments students & graduates original compositions & sound works. This event has been searching unsuccessfully for funding for around 4xyears now, it only exists thanks to hard work of the people involved & the limited support of the School itself.

Between 2004-2007 CCAS has had several attempts at getting an experimental arts festival off the ground, I’ve performed & been involved with two of these events. These ‘festival’ concepts eventually were reduced into one off events that all involved were hoping would drive local interest toward the larger festival concept.

I can’t comment about events that the NGA,School of Art and the National library haven’t received funding for, Its not my place, its up to the NGA, School of Art and National Gallery to comment about these events.

I can only really discuss my own experiences here not ones that have occurred as a collaborative group personally I have always ran my events without funding, out of my own pocket so I’ve never bothered with ‘funding’, I have relied heavily on ‘in kind’ support from the mentioned institutions.

What the You Are Here festival would gain from including these people is part of a much larger conversation that I think needs to occur between all these ‘stakeholders’ , Centenary of Canberra & the You Are Here festival.

“How would we have a bigger festival? Would you have received more money, would you be using the money in a different way, or would you be working with the institutions and schools I have mentioned be giving you in kind support such as extra gallery space etc.? How would that work in the Canberra CBD?”

I can’t imagine that the festival would receive more money by collaborating with these institutions, I don’t know what money has been spent on for this festival so its a bit hard to say how I’d use the money differently.

From experience these other Institutions would provide in kind support like, furniture, tech equipment, projectors , space for meetings & organization, promotion, each Institution alone reaches 1000’s of people via email lists & patron programs so apart from the You Are Here booklets & online promotion you would have ‘hard copy’ promotion in the form of ‘post outs’ to these other Institutions demographics.

Again, i see this as a much larger discussion…..

“Your comments about Finnigan come off as vague threats, and the over riding feeling from what you’ve written so far is not that you are a nutjob, or even passionate, but you are petulantly demanding to know why Finnigan got money and you didn’t.”

Well thats not what I intended and please don’t put words in my mouth, I’ve never once asked why David got the money, much less demanded petulantly, I really don’t care why David got the money, so no offense but your over riding feeling is wrong.

What I am interested in is being a part of the Festival & working WITH David. Not being taken out of context and attacked.

The only statement that I think could be perceived as a threat is this one: “These actions probably won’t effect you, but David as a government contractor is another story”

I made this statement after David linked to this on the You Are Here facebook page, in my judgement this was a malicious attempt to undermine the discussion that I was trying to get started here.

Its pretty clear that David & John (RiotACT) are heavily affiliated with each other, if my original comment had been published on the “What is the You Are Here festival about” page & then linked too I wouldn’t care, but publishing a private email fracas under the title “Flame of the Week” & then linking to it on the facebook page is just a slight bit malicious, don’t you think?

As I propagate my work online & attract new collaborations online this really can effect my practice, it does come up as the first choice in google before any of the stuff I might be pointing potential collaborators to, so what would you suggest I do?

David won’t talk to me, or reply to email so how else can I deal with this? Right at the moment I can’t see how else to deal with it but to get legal advice & draft a letter to Davids employer for the festival. Given the circumstances i don’t see any other option, maybe you have a better suggestion?

Where to start! Firstly I completely disagree with your view of the Canberra scene having a ‘fringe’ clique – I am using fringe, particularly as a theatre artist to describe work that is original and would not be appropriate at somewhere like Canberra REP. I do not use the term to try and put myself on a pedestal, or accuse others of being mainstream, but rather to identify the work I create and give it a frame for people who are not aware of it. I consider what I do to be fringe as it is left of centre.

You are putting words in my mouth when you accuse me of identifying as fringe as a way to call ‘the other group’ mainstream. What other group? Who is the other group? I’ve been involved in the Canberra performing arts scene for a fair while, and have never felt it falls on a mainstream/fringe or even other/fringe divide.

You say their/other a lot, but who? Like I said, School of Art graduates ARE involved in the festival and your response is… you want MORE school of art graduates involved in the festival? Do you know which graduates are and are not involved? What parts of the You Are Here program are you going to see?

You talk about Graduates, but what graduates and what shows/collectives have they formed or are a part of? What are the other festivals they have tried to get off the ground that have not been funded? I, like a whole mess of Canberra artists, have worked for years creating work both funded and unfunded. When the festivals did not get funding to go ahead, what happened in their place?

How would we have a bigger festival? Would you have received more money, would you be using the money in a different way, or would you be working with the institutions and schools I have mentioned be giving you in kind support such as extra gallery space etc.? How would that work in the Canberra CBD?

You are speaking in quite vague terms, not only about the events you have curated, but also the other groups you have worked with who you feel should be creating work for this festival, what they would bring to this festival, and what your previous unfunded festival models have been.

Your comments about Finnigan come off as vague threats, and the over riding feeling from what you’ve written so far is not that you are a nutjob, or even passionate, but you are petulantly demanding to know why Finnigan got money and you didn’t.

“I would be really interested to find out about the groups that have been left out. You bring up examples like the School Of Art being left out, and not even knowing that the festival was on, but there is definitely a strong representation of School of Art graduates in You Are Here.”

“I am also confused by the repeated bringing up of the NGA — the National Gallery? Is NGA an acronym for something else I am not aware of? If not, what vested interest could the National Gallery have in a festival that doesn’t take part in their institution? Surely they receive enough money from the ACT government without needing a slice from this festival too? What would they do for You Are Here? Maybe I just don’t fully understand what the NGA does. What interest could the NGA have in what services the-riotact performs for the community?”

Using NGA & School of art as examples, both Institutions have ‘fringe’ & ‘experimental’ artists involved with them, both have a long history of being linked to Arts in Canberra, both Institutions have loads of more experimental initiatives that never get off the ground largely due to lack of financial support, both have access to large networks full of resources. They also represent giant networks…

I don’t think NGA & School Of Art would see this as an opportunity for more funding, they would welcome You Are Here as an opportunity for its students, ex graduates not already included & for the Canberra community as a whole.

Including these other ‘stakeholders’ in You Are Here can only strengthen You Are Here’s position & provide even more linkage with the Canberra art community.

“I am more interested in the fringe arts groups without formal backing of cultural and tertiary institutions. What work do they create? Where is it created? What sort of impact has it had on the Canberra scene?”

Without Art School graduates, or ACAT or CNMA graduates, CIT graduates I think the Canberra scene would be a very different place, the NGA provides employment for many artists as curators, restorers, preservers, where would Canberra be without these Artists that have been able to remain in the Canberra scene as a result of this?

The term ‘fringe’ imply s’ that its on the edge of something right? What if its not as black & white as mainstream Vs fringe? What if at every level there are things you could consider ‘experimental’ or fringe going on? What if in the mainstream there are ‘fringe’ artists too?

I think the ‘hipster clique’ label you refer to comes from NOT connecting with the larger Canberra Art community, but instead creating a fringe element & not even contacting them.

I apologize for using it, I really don’t like the reductive idea , I’m really only trying to show that both sides of the argument are involved in the creation & decimation of this ‘hipster clique’ concept, its not as simple as people outside of the fringe labeling it that way.

You might not be directly saying it but by identifying yourself as ‘fringe’ at the same time implys that the other group is a ‘mainstream clique’

Try to see it from their perspective, they have rallied for more experimental arts for years, tried to get other similar festivals off the ground, didn’t get the go ahead from Arts ACT or AusCo, had to compromise & put on less experimental festivals & then when a festival comes along that is sponsored by government interests but is also tasked with promoting ‘experimental’ ‘fringe’ arts they are left out?

Imagine if the ‘fringe’ element & the main stream Institutions were working together?

“what a thing to say! Please, Warwick Lynch, tell me what you would do? Tell me who YOU would involve? I would love to hear even the vaguest rundown of the You Are Here festival if it was in your hands.”

How can I even answer that? I would imagine that if these other Institutions & individuals were included from the very start of the planning stage onwards we would have an even bigger festival, more acts, more demographics represented. Perhaps some type of representation from experimental artists that are over 18-30?

Look, I didn’t make that comment to undermine the Festival that is happening, I made it because I don’t think it is representing ALL of Canberra.

Also lets not lose sight of the fact that this is all being pushed ahead because the Centenary is approaching, the funding & the governmental interest is only flowing because Canberra is celebrating a centenary in two years. This is an opportunity with a time limit, if ALL of the Canberra underground scene don’t make the most of it it will represent another lost opportunity for arts in Canberra, right at the moment I don’t think that ALL of the scene is being given the opportunity.

David Finnigan & co was given funding & planning permission for a Festival promoting Canberra’s underground arts, why does the program only reflect the last 2-3 years of underground arts in Canberra?

Anyway, If David had replied to the initial inquiries I emailed him over a month ago I can’t imagine this would have ended up on here, I’d be participating in the festival & I would have contacted the NGA & School of art & pushed for larger community wide involvement, Instead David has left himself & the Festival wide open to this type of discussion…..

JB, the formula you mention was adhered too & you know it, you just personally didn’t want to let my original comment thru, as can be interpreted by the way you have tried to make me out to be a nut case.

And really, after the initial moderated comment you didn’t exactly act in a non-provoking manner , you provoked me during a private conversation & then when you got the expected response you published it & then David linked to it on the You Are Here facebook page, thats a pretty malicious way to try & attack my credibility. Kudo’s on tagging it so that it comes up on the first page of a Google search too.

These actions probably won’t effect you, but David as a government contractor is another story

I might be passionate about Canberra arts, I might be opinionated, I may not have the best way of communicating these ideas without putting people offside but the one thing I’m not is a nutbag & you labeling me that only detracts from the discussion I am trying to ‘elicit ‘ (Thanks Breda!)

Yeah, I’ve got to say if Warwick Lynch’s original posts were similar in content to the first email he sent you why were they censored? I would be really interested to find out about the groups that have been left out. You bring up examples like the School Of Art being left out, and not even knowing that the festival was on, but there is definitely a strong representation of School of Art graduates in You Are Here. I am more interested in the fringe arts groups without formal backing of cultural and tertiary institutions. What work do they create? Where is it created? What sort of impact has it had on the Canberra scene?

I am also confused by the repeated bringing up of the NGA — the National Gallery? Is NGA an acronym for something else I am not aware of? If not, what vested interest could the National Gallery have in a festival that doesn’t take part in their institution? Surely they receive enough money from the ACT government without needing a slice from this festival too? What would they do for You Are Here? Maybe I just don’t fully understand what the NGA does. What interest could the NGA have in what services the-riotact performs for the community?

I think Warwick Lynch started off with some fair points, and unless his original post that was moderated was more like his later emails which certainly trailed off into surreal threats, why was he moderated?

JB your email responses are pretty infuriating and I can see how Warwick Lynch might react how he did. Especially your ‘I look forward to your website comment’ which smacks of it’s my ball so I make the rules, if you don’t like it go somewhere else, which is a totally acceptable way to run an internet forum, but not a great way to run an open platform discussion. I agree, it does seem like a petty attempt to humiliate someone without responding to a single point they are raising.

Still, if people could stop referring to every single piece of remotely fringe art they come into contact as a hipster clique that would be great.

I think You Are Here festival looks awesome — I am doing a bunch of gigs for it, so I am a completely invested stake holder — but the entire program looks amazing, and I am extremely excited to get out and see everything.

seriously though…

“So thanks, to your censorship a critical discussion seems destined to happen, a critical discussion that might actually see the emergence of a festival that actually is interested in promoting Canberra.”

what a thing to say! Please, Warwick Lynch, tell me what you would do? Tell me who YOU would involve? I would love to hear even the vaguest rundown of the You Are Here festival if it was in your hands.

“Question is, though, before he trailed off into weird threats and spooky prophecy, did he start out with a fair point?”

I totally agree, the poster did seem to have a valid point – one that there should be no problem discussing in a setting like this. The riot act promotes itself as an online soap box for community discussion and taking an editorial position like this seems problematic. If you are actively promoting an event does that mean it is above discussion? Should posters start declaring conflicts of interest?

This response seems strange too:

“We’re just not that interested in having a fight by disgruntled artists when the issue for us is how the public relates to it.”

The issue for whom? Is this person not part of the public? Statements like this seem to go against the idea of a community forum; you need to decide whether you are running an online soapbox or a news site.

Finally, your posting this email chain like this under the topic “Flame of the week– The Boots of Warwick Lynch” comes across as a really petty attempt to humiliate this person for no apparent reason.

I’d like to see more of this sort of thing JB.

My dealings with the great unwashed (eg tutor at Canberra Uni) have shown me that there’s a lot of strange people out there. I’m sure you get a lot of wacky correspondence that never makes it to our screens, and I think it’d be nice if you spread the love every now and then, just so that we can get a feel for what you and the other overlords go through while bringing us our favourite website.

As for this bloke? Well, I also used to get the “I don’t want to play with you” line sometimes when I was a little kid at school. It hurt my feelings, but I learned to deal with it. It seems like Warwick hasn’t progressed past year 3 or 4 in the emotional intelligence and personal resilience stakes.

If he’s unhappy, he should start his own website/festival/freakout/thing/whatever.

i’m outraged that my house isn’t being lit up by orange floodlights for ‘enlightened’…

+1 to pjf

Well, I guess my thoughts are out there now….

Just for the record, I emailed David several times offering to help & be a part of this event, I never received a response & then did some research of my own into exactly who has been contacted for this festival.

I then attempted to comment on the RIOT act’s ‘What Is It All About, The you are here festival’ post only to be moderated for no good reason.

Rather than make me out to be the bad guy why didn’t you just allow this discussion to occur in the first place, minus the censorship.

I really never imagined this would make ‘flame of the week’, whatever that is!