Police Wrap - 21 January

ure you take them out and try to kill them.

Whoa…who said anything about killing anyone?

I’m inclined to hold the offenders responsible moreso than their parents. I’m pretty sure by the age of 16 you have a firm grasp of right & wrong.

Can’t wait till I see a white Proton sedan with P plates in the Monash area. Can’t be too many of those $hitboxes getting around.

Sure you take them out and try to kill them. Seriously it works. Helps set boundaries. You let them talk and listen to them. Then you try to kill them in as many ways as you can think of.

Showing kids there is more to life then what they have seen. There are forces in the world they are yet to feel. That there are other ways to behave and react.

Its simple stuff. Just takes time, money and good adult role models. You can do all that without laying a hand on them.

Cheap, quick and asshole role models can beat them to an inch of their life. Simpler, lazy way.

I have never attended a school that had corporal punishment (and went to school from teh 60’s to the 80’s), but the schools I went to had firm rules in place, which were enforced. Punishment was things like detention, and notifying parents and so forth, and this was backed up by teh parents. And that is the key. If parents sit back and do nothing, or worse, back up teh kids, then you end up with evil kids who are a blight on society now and are going to get worse.

You don’t need to inflict violence on them, but punishments must be meaningful, and not pleasant to the perps.

As a matter of interest Ant – were yo disciplined at home, and if so how?

ant said :

I have never attended a school that had corporal punishment (and went to school from teh 60’s to the 80’s), but the schools I went to had firm rules in place, which were enforced. Punishment was things like detention, and notifying parents and so forth, and this was backed up by teh parents. And that is the key. If parents sit back and do nothing, or worse, back up teh kids, then you end up with evil kids who are a blight on society now and are going to get worse.

You don’t need to inflict violence on them, but punishments must be meaningful, and not pleasant to the perps.

I wholey agree.

Look I think it’s great if you can raise kids without having to smack or beat them ( Your wording , not mine) and they grow up to be well behaved citizens of society, that’s just great and more power to those people.

FC you don’t have kids and I’m not going to say you have no right to comment as everyone has the right to their own opinion, it will be interesting to see however if and when you do have kids that you will never raise your hand to them, I hope you don’t have to, but on the same note those that have tried other forms of discipline and have found that a good smack (not beating) works for them and keeps the child on the right track, should have the right to do so without any form of criticism.

dexi said :

Sure timberwolf your so well adjusted.

I’m not sure what you mean by this dexi …please explain!

I have never attended a school that had corporal punishment (and went to school from teh 60’s to the 80’s), but the schools I went to had firm rules in place, which were enforced. Punishment was things like detention, and notifying parents and so forth, and this was backed up by teh parents. And that is the key. If parents sit back and do nothing, or worse, back up teh kids, then you end up with evil kids who are a blight on society now and are going to get worse.

You don’t need to inflict violence on them, but punishments must be meaningful, and not pleasant to the perps.

Sure timberwolf your so well adjusted.

“So its a drug issue then”
No, What I meant to draw attention to by saying that it was likely linked with substance use/misuse was that the problem of youth voilence usually doesn’t stand alone youths who exhibit violent “thug like” behaviour using have a multiple and complex needs/issues, one of which may be the misuse/abuse of subtances.
So I don’t think the issue cant addressed without looking at ALL the issues that surround this type of thing.

No – I don’t have kids. (Here comes the bit about how can I comment on this issue then?)
I was brought up well, without voilence as punishment – I respect my parents, the law, have good job, own my own home – I was disciplined in other ways – through removal of rewards – being sent to my room, things of that nature.
However, I am not posting on this thread about the use of physical punishement by parents as a form of disipline (there have been various threads on this on the riotact previously). I do not want to get into that deabte (been there, done that).I was posting on this thread about the fact that “giving these kids a beating” is not the best way to stop this kind of thing from happening.

“Who said anything about beating the kids.”
Uh – are you kidding? The posts that said we should do exactly that is what I am commenting on!!

I hope you all realize that crime rates were higher at the beginning of last century (albeit more inaccurate). Hanging was around then, too. We’ve actually been experiencing a gradual decline towards where we are now, without hanging.

tylersmayhem said :

As I’ve said many times before in many other threads, Gungahlin drive need duplicating and we have these little turds roaming our streets beating people up. Let’s bypass the whole value of beating the shit out of them, and put them out to work. I’d be all for the old fashioned chain gangs who used to develop and establish towns. Let’s start it again, and meantime the weird mindless morons who are out for human rights can start their case.

This brilliant solution should mean better use of tax dollars, we get to see and use the results of criminal blood, sweat & tears and everyone wins. Brilliant!

That’s a bloody great idea, I would be happy with that.
Beats beating the shit out of them!

As I’ve said many times before in many other threads, Gungahlin drive need duplicating and we have these little turds roaming our streets beating people up. Let’s bypass the whole value of beating the shit out of them, and put them out to work. I’d be all for the old fashioned chain gangs who used to develop and establish towns. Let’s start it again, and meantime the weird mindless morons who are out for human rights can start their case.

This brilliant solution should mean better use of tax dollars, we get to see and use the results of criminal blood, sweat & tears and everyone wins. Brilliant!

FC said :

there have been various studies done saying that the death penalty is not a detterent that is effectively stopping people murdering other people. google it.

Of course it’s not going to stop sick deranged people from murdering, but it sure gets their unwanted arses six feet under, one less murderer we have to support while they live it up in the big house and also insuring they will never re offend.

FC said :

did I claim to have an answer to the problem? No
The issue of youth voilence (which is probably linked in with substance use/misuse) is a complex issue with no simple solution.

So it’s a drug issue then??

FC said :

I think that parenting your children in general (without the need for violence) would be good step toward it. But even with or without the issue of parents ‘smacking their kids’ when they misbehave (which is not what I was orginally posting about), that assumes that there are loving, caring parents looking out for their kids in the first place, providing them with the other neccessities of a healthy upbring (along with discipline: food, clothing, shelter, nurturing, support, ,love etc)
When in reality this is not the case for a lot of kids.
And when these things aren’t in place, being violent to them is not going to turn them into more responsible citizens, more it would just make them more angry at the world and give them more reasons to justify to themselves there own lashing out of violence.

So in the above quote you have stated (along with discipline: food etc etc etc, what are your methods of discipline you use on your kids, I take it you have kids? You just didn’t answer my question in the above posts… do you have kids?

This is not the “bleeing heart” lefty opinion – but if you want results – in my opionion – the solution of “giving these kids a beating” is just going to create more problems for everyone. And I for one think that is stupid.

Who said anything about “beating kids” a good smack or a belt on the arse is what I’m talking about.

Um you said that punishing violence with voilence was abolished over 40 years ago. I didn’t realise that the 90s was over 40 years ago. Damn. I knew I shouldn’t have dopped advanced maths in college.

there have been various studies done saying that the death penalty is not a detterent that is effectively stopping people murdering other people. google it.

“So what do you suggest we try instead of punishment of criminals, more molly-coddling to make up for their poor parenting?”
god you talk some crap. Did I mentioan that we shouldn’t ‘punish’ criminals?
NO – Where are you getting this from??? :-\
And I don’t know what molly coddling is – but no, I don’t suggest that.

FC said :

ITs just completely hipocrital PB.
and what a lot of crap that there hasn’t been violent punishment for the last 4o years.
For one corporal punishment in schools ended only semi recently.

“Semi-recently”???? Well that’s a new expression.

All corporal punishment in schools (not that I was talking about in schools in any case) was abandoned in the early 1990’s, but it’s use has been in decline since the 60’s.

And what about countries that stil have the death penalty (the most extreme form of physical punishment for crime) it has been proved over and over again that this is NOT deterring people from committing those crimes.

How do you know how many people DO NOT commit a crime due to the chance of being executed? How are those figures compiled?

So would you suggest that in countries where voilence toward criminals by police/authority figures, have less crime and voilent crimes??

It’s impossible to tell, as you cannot measure crimes “in posse.”

So what do you suggest we try instead of punishment of criminals, more molly-coddling to make up for their poor parenting?

did I claim to have an answer to the problem? No
The issue of youth voilence (which is probably linked in with substance use/misuse) is a complex issue with no simple solution.
I think that parenting your children in general (without the need for violence) would be good step toward it. But even with or without the issue of parents ‘smacking their kids’ when they misbehave (which is not what I was orginally posting about), that assumes that there are loving, caring parents looking out for their kids in the first place, providing them with the other neccessities of a healthy upbring (along with discipline: food, clothing, shelter, nurturing, support, ,love etc)
When in reality this is not the case for a lot of kids.
And when these things aren’t in place, being violent to them is not going to turn them into more responsible citizens, more it would just make them more angry at the world and give them more reasons to justify to themselves there own lashing out of violence.
This is not the “bleeing heart” lefty opinion – but if you want results – in my opionion – the solution of “giving these kids a beating” is just going to create more problems for everyone. And I for one think that is stupid.

FC said :

ITs just completely hipocrital PB.
and what a lot of crap that there hasn’t been violent punishment for the last 4o years.
For one corporal punishment in schools ended only semi recently.
And what about countries that stil have the death penalty (the most extreme form of physical punishment for crime) it has been proved over and over again that this is NOT deterring people from committing those crimes.
So would you suggest that in countries where voilence toward criminals by police/authority figures, have less crime and voilent crimes??

So again, what is your answer to the problem FC, would love to read your thoughts on this and also do you have kids?.

ITs just completely hipocrital PB.
and what a lot of crap that there hasn’t been violent punishment for the last 4o years.
For one corporal punishment in schools ended only semi recently.
And what about countries that stil have the death penalty (the most extreme form of physical punishment for crime) it has been proved over and over again that this is NOT deterring people from committing those crimes.
So would you suggest that in countries where voilence toward criminals by police/authority figures, have less crime and voilent crimes??

FC said :

So where is the evidence that these children grew up with no discipline?
They could equally have been brought up with harsh physical disciple, which could be why they think that violence is okay.
HOWEVER – my comment said nothing about children not being disciplined. It was about the hypocricy of punishing something for voilence, with voilence.
Also – how can you say that “obviously have no fear of getting into trouble” they may have great fear – but just never expected to get caught.
And bringing back the cane – what, because that prevented children from the last generation from growing up to be criminals/thugs.
please..
So many assumptions being made…

Well what is your answer to the problem then! Yes these kids could of been brought up on harsh beatings and no love, that is probably the case here.

All I’m saying is that when I was a kid I got a good belting WHEN I did something wrong and I respect my parents for it, I respect the law and my elders. I have never stolen, or bashed anyone or been in trouble with the law, I have a good job, home and beautiful kids to my partner of 17years.

It’s worked for me and so far it’s worked for my kids.

I know if they brought back the cane in schools there would be a hell of a lot more learning going on which creates smarter kids, kids getting jobs, kids having confidence in themselves to get somewhere in life, make something of themselves….

Each to their own though, there is many a debate on this topic.

Put your hands on your hips, and bring you knees in tiiiiight!

It’s just a step to the left, then a step to the riiiiiiight!

Oh god, the old liberal bleeding heart nonsense “we shouldn’t punish violence with violence”. Well we haven’t for the last 40 years or more. And now the miscreants are running unafraid of the consequences of their actions, and the lives of good citizens are being damaged each and every day.

Why would they give a F###. They already know that the adults in their life just want to fu## and beat them anyway. I doubt they would expect anything less.

They need to be beaten brutally for it to have any effect beyond fear and hatred.

Screaming, agonising, prolonged, pain. Deprivation, humiliation. You can’t go half hearted at these things or they won’t work. You cant just slap the little fellas and think its going to have any effect. Submission only comes near death.

The rest of the kiddies will just act out the violence, back in the community.

They do need to suffer consequences for what they’re doing. There’s too much of this goin gon, we all see it around us on a daily basis. Rotten, lazy parents who have inflicted dangerous kids on society.

We expect something to be done to express how we feel to these nasty creatures, and some kind of deterrent enacted to make them understand that if they do bad thigns, bad things will happen back to them. It will always be an uphill battle because their early upbringing will dictate how they are for the rest of their lives.

But letting them get away with a stern talking to will NOT change their foul outlook on life or their attitudes to the rest of us.

So where is the evidence that these children grew up with no discipline?
They could equally have been brought up with harsh physical disciple, which could be why they think that violence is okay.
HOWEVER – my comment said nothing about children not being disciplined. It was about the hypocricy of punishing something for voilence, with voilence.
Also – how can you say that “obviously have no fear of getting into trouble” they may have great fear – but just never expected to get caught.
And bringing back the cane – what, because that prevented children from the last generation from growing up to be criminals/thugs.
please..
So many assumptions being made…

FC said :

“This is bloody terrible, these kids need a good belting.”

“Name and shame the parents.. then beat the kids without mercy”

“Offenders like this should be given physical punishment”

So we’re shocked at their voilence yet we want to punish them with… voilence.
Great lesson they’ll learn :-\

Well, look what no discipline does to kids, they end up having no respect for anything, anyone. They seem to think they have the right to go out and gang bash innocent people for their phones or wallets.

They obviously have no fear of getting into trouble, no respect for authority and don’t care that what they are doing is wrong.

They need to bring back the cane in schools, the kid will learn to respect, and learn. If they want to muck up and do the wrong thing they have made that choice and they will get the cane.

I’m not talking about bashing them senseless for no reason. Just a good smack when they need it.

“This is bloody terrible, these kids need a good belting.”

“Name and shame the parents.. then beat the kids without mercy”

“Offenders like this should be given physical punishment”

So we’re shocked at their voilence yet we want to punish them with… voilence.
Great lesson they’ll learn :-\

Offenders like this should be given physical punishment whether it be caning like the American 16 yr old caned for vandalism in Singapore or being put in a chain gang. The problem is that any incoming party which would permit such punishment would face lawsuits galore.

So you’re mid teens, life is too comfortable, too easy, Mum and Dad have been abject failures at raising you with any moral standards and you think it’s acceptable to hunt innocent people as part of a gang……

The reality is they need yanking out from their suburban comfort zone and given a short sharp, harsh lesson in the realities of life. Sadly our pathetic excuse for a judicial system will only encourage them to re offend rather then make them realise they have to respect the law and other people.

Don’t we have anti-terrorism laws for this kind of thing?

ant said :

They should be extradited to Queanbeyan for burning public trees. The Qbn courts don’t muck around. no slap on teh wrist for them.

maybe, they were trying to get to the new mitchell youth facility. a dip in a pool in the middle of summer sounds like a good thing.

They should be extradited to Queanbeyan for burning public trees. The Qbn courts don’t muck around. no slap on teh wrist for them.

The trouble is we have a “second chance” fixation here.

These tw@t’s should be given an immediate custodial sentence, a couple of years or more. May make them think twice about doing it again.

two girls, two guys…hell of a double date! 😉

Kizzle said :

Name and shame the parents.. then beat the kids without mercy.

Couldn’t agree more. But we all know some pea hearted Magistrate will listen to some cock and bull story about what a tragic life they have had and they’ll get a slap on the wrist and told to be good boys.

Operation Caprae brings peace to strife torn Tuggeranong:

Where the f**k are these children’s parents – and will THEY be held accountable?

Well said guys, I agree with your comments.

Good role models have a greater effect than parents (good parental role models are the best). I’m not sure what kind of role model would beat children into submission. Maybe the role models their parents had might.

Looks like some good work by the cops on this.

Chain gangs. Pink overalls. If the parents won’t raise their kids properly, the state can do it for them.

Name and shame the parents.. then beat the kids without mercy.

This is bloody terrible, these kids need a good belting.

How dare these kids take away peoples freedom to walk the streets at night, what can I say we are to blame for this, there is no discipline, there is no respect.

If they go to Children’s Court, and get fined, do their parents have to pay the fine?

Looking at these incidents, the term “children’s court” looks rather silly.